When your Social Security retirement benefit is subject to the Windfall Elimination Provision (WEP), you’re likely painfully aware of the reduction to your own benefit by this provision. What you may not be aware of is that the effect goes beyond your own benefit – your spouse’s and other dependents’ benefits are also impacted by this provision. However, the impact of WEP does not continue after your death.
Spousal Benefit impacted by WEP
The Windfall Elimination Provision results in a recalculation of the Primary Insurance Amount, or PIA, of the individual who is receiving a pension based upon earnings that were not subject to Social Security taxation. Since the PIA is recalculated and reduced by the WEP, all benefits based on that PIA are likewise reduced.
This means that even though the WEP does not directly impact Spousal Benefits of an individual, the Spousal Benefit is still reduced since the PIA of the other spouse is impacted. This impact occurs regardless of whether the person receiving the Spousal Benefit is receiving a pension based on earnings that were not subject to Social Security taxation.
For example, Danny was a government employee for many years, and he also had a side job where he paid Social Security tax on his earnings. He is eligible for a Social Security benefit of $1,200 (before WEP impact) in addition to his government pension of $2,000 (monthly figures).
Danny’s wife Sandy did not work outside the home. When Danny files for his own Social Security Benefit, Sandy is looking forward to receiving a Spousal Benefit based on Danny’s record. But Sandy will be surprised to find out that the amount of her Spousal Benefit will not be $600 per month (50% of Danny’s projected $1,200), but rather it will only be $396 per month. This is due to the fact that Danny’s PIA of $1,200 is reduced by WEP at the rate of $408/month (for 2014). Danny’s recalculated PIA therefore becomes $792 ($1,200 minus $408), and 50% of that figure is $396. (Both Danny and Sandy are at Full Retirement Age when benefits are applied for).
Survivor Benefits not impacted by WEP
The good news is that the impact of WEP does not reach beyond the grave. After the primary numberholder (Danny from our example above) has passed away, the pension based on the earnings not subject to Social Security taxes ceases to be paid to Danny. Even if Sandy receives a survivor pension from Danny’s government work, WEP will no longer impact any Social Security benefits that Sandy receives based upon Danny’s record. Danny’s PIA is restored to the former level, and the Survivor Benefit that Sandy is eligible to receive will be based upon the restored, $1,200/month PIA.
Notes – If Sandy also had earnings from government employment not subject to Social Security taxation, these could reduce both her Spousal Benefit and the Survivor Benefit due to the Government Pension Offset (GPO).
In addition, if Danny’s side-job earnings had been substantial in more than 20 years, the impact of the WEP would be reduced; eliminated if the substantial earnings occurred in 30 or more years.
Sterling Raskie, MSFS, CFP®, ChFC®
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Ok here is our situation. My wife worked as a nurse for forty years and paid SS on her salary. While I have paid in my 40 quarters I retired from a county government job that pays me a pension. While I know my SS will be reduce because of WEP will her benefit be affected as she earned her benefit on her own?
No, the WEP impact is only on your record – so only your own benefit and auxiliary benefits paid on your record will be impacted by WEP. If your wife was to receive a spousal benefit based on your record, the WEP reduction would impact her spousal benefit amount. But her own benefit is not affected by your government pension.
Thank for the info
My wife received SS retirement benefits under her own record and she is entitled to a Canadian pension plan payment which she has not elected yet. Now my wife in getting SS retirement spousal benefits which are higher than just under her own work record. I see articles and comments that WEP does not apply to spousal benefits, BUT spousal benefits are made up of a workers own record and then those are “supplemented” or increased to bring the monthly amount up to the higher spousal benefits in our case. My question and my confusion is over whether a spousal benefits can be totally exempted from WEP or will the SSA still apply WEP to that portion of Spousal benefits which are part of the spouses own work record? For a simple example under my wife’s own work record she would receive $500 per month. Now under Spousal benefits an additional $500 per month is added or supplemented to her own $500 to bring the total monthly amount to $1,000 per month. Will the SSA apply the WEP to the $500 portion of Spousal benefits under her own work record or will the total $1,000.00 be exempted from WEP. I know about GPO but that does not apply to foreign pensions.
Thank you.
Tony S.
Yes, unless she has enough (30 years) of substantial earnings under US Social Security taxation, the portion of your wife’s benefit that is related to her own record can be reduced by WEP. The maximum WEP impact is the lesser of 50% of the amount of SS benefit ($250 from your example) or 50% of the pension triggering the WEP. The spousal benefit will not be impacted, but the overall amount she receives could be reduced to $750 (from your example of $1,000).
Please explain this to me! My wife is a retired teacher in I’ll. I’ve worked my entire life in construction paying into social security for forty years and as I understand it my wife won’t get a penny of my hard earned social security dollars when I die. I fully intend to work till I drop dead. Tell me, is this true? If so why did I bother paying into SS in the first place.
First of all, please understand that I don’t agree with the way this works, I’m just explaining it to you.
If your wife is receiving a pension based on work for a governmental entity that she did not pay Social Security tax on, then the Government Pension Offset applies to a survivor benefit from Social Security. As a result, the future survivor benefit that she potentially would be eligible to receive upon your death is reduced by 2/3 of the amount of the pension she’s receiving. In many cases this eliminates the Social Security survivor benefit – and that sounds like what you’ve just learned about.
You will still be eligible to receive retirement Social Security benefits based on your working record when you decide to claim the benefit.
Mr B. My wife who,asI memtioned, is a retired teacher in Illinois had approximately 11% taken out of her salary dedicated for her pension benefits every year. This is money that she supplied to her pension fund which is returned to us in the form of a annuity. This is her money and not the governments to play off of my Social Security. Got any contacts in the government to expose this unfair treatment?
Call your senators and representatives. To change this is to make a change to the law, and those are the people to do it.
Many of us feel your Payne, Jeff! When I learned about the GPO it was the gift that keeps on giving… every time I remember it, it’s like a fresh kick to the gut.
Hi, I am 67 years old and I paid into SS system and have about 40 years of substantial earnings. I have 4 years in TRS (Texas Teachers Retirement System). I have one more year before I can get a minimum retirement from TRS. I understand that I will be able to get my full benefits from SS because I have over 30 years of substantial earnings. If I work one more year under TRS I will be eligible for about $360 per month retirement. And my social security benefit would be about $2450 per month.
My wife was a stay at home mother except for 5 years in the Texas TRS system but she is not eligible to receive a retirement from them because she withdrew the first years funds from the system. This means that she would have to have at least one more year in the system to get the minimum monthly retirement. That would be about $360 per month. Will this affect the spousal benefit from SS? We have been planning on that benefit for several years. Should she stop working in the Texas Teachers Retirement System? Or would this affect her at all?
Thank you for any help you can give us.
JBowling
I know that the Texas TRS is a complicated matter. I suggest that you contact Devin Carroll (https://socialsecurityintelligence.com/about-devin-carroll/) as he has spent much time studying and understanding the nuances of incorporating Social Security with TRS.
windfall elimination provision has been in social security subcommittee since 2017. Are there any groups that are involved in getting this provision moving. The survivor benefits for spouses that have not been government employees and receive no pensions but social security is cut by 60% to the widow or widower who has a government pension. The affects on the survivor is devastating, especially women over 70 with small pensions, cutting their income by half. 75% of survivors over 70 are women.
Sorry, but I don’t have any information about groups involved with this provision.
Senate bill 3526 and companion HB 6933 look to address this issue. Don’t hold your breath, introduced in Senate by Ted Cruz
My spouse is is a SURS (Illinois State University Retirement System) employee and several years younger than I am. She has 40 quarters but nowhere near 30 years substantial. I am retired military and soon to be retired from FERS. The SS estimator indicates a benefit at age 70 of $2921 and a spouse survivor benefit at full retirement age of $2188. Will that amount be affected by WEP due to her SURS employment? Thanks, cb
Yes, WEP will impact your spouse’s Social Security benefit, but not the survivor benefit. GPO will impact the survivor benefit that she is eligible for based on your benefit levels if you die before she does.
my husband worked at civil service for 25years he retired 2001 before that he was in the army for 2 years and worked at other jobs for 7years after he retired in 2001 he took a contracting job that had ss 10years later he had a heart attack at 61 he had to go on ssd they reduced his ss he was only getting 609 dollars his pension was 1,238 dollars I have no job or social security I was getting spouse benefits of 233.00 my husband died jan 2017 at aged 66 I am 63 ss still 233.00 amonth they its all I am going to get
You should be eligible for widow’s (survivor) benefit based on his Social Security benefit that he was receiving at his death. You should contact Social Security and ask about this.
Hi Jim,
I have 27 years of substantial years. I have 6 years of working for a state university where I have contributed to the Self Managed Plan under SURS. Is there any way I can avoid the WEP reduction with the Self Managed Plan by taking the lump sum distribution instead of the annuity?
Thanks,
Barb
The only way to avoid WEP altogether if you don’t have 30 years of substantial earnings is to distribute the pension plan before you’re eligible for it. Unfortunately most plans will not allow this. If you’re in Illinois (guessing based on the terms you’ve used) then I’m sure that the SURS plan will not allow a distribution before you’re eligible.
I worked for a political subdivision if the state which did my pay social security but contributed to a 401a which does not have a guaranteed payout based on years of service and salary, etc. rather it is subject to market fluctuations like a 401k. Social security tells me I am subject to WEP and GPO. I have 15 years of substantial earnings in addition to the government job. And many years of being a spouse raising children.
Is the amount to report on my 401a, the amount that was transferred to a 401k, the amount of my contributions and the employers or the balance, and if so as of which date? The date of transfer to a 401k, last day of employment?
Does the WEP maximum offset $ amount apply in the year I turned 62, ( I saw a chart regarding this) if I plan on drawing social security at age 65, full retirement is 66 years for me.
Also, if my husband dies before me, can I change at his death and draw 100% of his social security or will the GPO apply then also? Thank you for your help!
I don’t understand: you say that the earnings were subject to Social Security tax, but that WEP still applies? That doesn’t sound right to me.
Assuming that you meant to say that Social Security tax was not paid on the earnings, you’ll need to work with SSA to determine the figure from your plan that will be applicable as WEP impacting. The year of WEP maximum is the year you reach age 62.
If WEP applies and the job is a government job, GPO will apply to the benefits of others (your spousal benefit or survivor benefit) as well.
Best wishes to you –
I have 10 substantial earning years in corporate jobs where I paid into SS (have my 40 quarters). The next 11 years I was raising my children. I became very passionate about children and education and now I am considering to change careers and become a teacher in Texas. I understand my SS future benefits will be subject to WEP and GOP (extremely disappointing). So discouraged, feel like a dream is being shattered and now I am not sure if getting a teaching certificate at this point in life would make sense causing my future ss benefits to be reduced.
~Do you have any thoughts/advise on that? I have about 21 yrs till full retirement age, but was hoping not to have to work that long.
~I am afraid I would have to teach a lot of years to end up with a decent monthly pension upon retirement from the school system. How would I find out what a break-even year would be?
~ Another question: Would working for a school district that participates in both SS and Teacher’s Retirement Pension avoid WEP & GP?
~ Is participating in a 457b plan (substitute teachers do not partici[pate in TRS, but instead in 457b) evoke WEP & GPO the same way?
Any thoughts, greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
It’s a complicated set of questions. What you must weigh are the benefits of the teaching position (including the fact that it’s your passion!) against the Social Security benefits that would not be earned if you’re not covered by SS. Presumably the pension will more than make up for the reduction in SS benefits due to WEP – as the maximum WEP impact is to be no more than 50% of the pension triggering WEP. Plus the WEP impact can be less than 50% of the pension if the pension is more than double the maximum WEP figure, presently at $442.50/month.
To your specific questions:
The break-even analysis is a fairly in-depth review, which a financial advisor may be able to help with. You should find a local (in Texas) advisor to help you with this. I am not registered to work with Texas residents, so I can’t help you.
Working for a school district where your pay is covered by Social Security tax will eliminate WEP impact on that income/future pension.
A 457b plan, if the income was not subject to Social Security tax, will still trigger WEP impact.
Thank you!
I waited until full retirement age of 66 before taking Social Security benefits. I have a retired teachers pension from the state of Missouri. I applied online for benefits and was contacted and told how much I my SS would be reduced because of teachers retirement, and was then told I would be eligible to receive spousal benefits from my husbands SS benefits. 26 months later, get a letter telling me I was not eligible and would have to repay almost $12,000 back that I should have not received.
Seems to me, the SS Administration needs to get their head together and not pay benefits that people are not eligible for.
This is the pits!!!!! Coming up with that amount has not been easy.
Know nothing can be done about it, but wanted to vent.
Hello again,
After much paperwork exchange, and nail biting, Social Security has decided that WEP and GPO don’t apply and I am set to receive benefits under my husband’s record. This is a huge relief. Happy Thanksgiving to all!
That’s great news, Barbara. Thanks for the followup!
Hello! I am coming up on 66 years of age and applying for Social Security. To my surprise, I get a phone call and letter explaining that my benefit will be reduced due to wep and gpo. In the 1980’s I worked in my family owned business (not government!) for about 7-8 years, and was exempt from paying Social Security taxes. I did have a retirement plan and ended up with $22,000 put in. Later I worked for the same business and paid Social Security, and continued to fund the retirement plan. My husband owned the business and managed 35 years of near maximum income.
I was told originally that I would get $750 on my record plus some of his benefit or about $1300, but now it seems like I may end up with $300-400. Can you help me?
You should talk to SSA and explain the situation to them, and ask them to explain why WEP and/or GPO applies to your situation.
I have talked to them 3 times now. I have explained the situation to them. Today they said they need a letter from the holder of my Rollover IRA, so I have requested that, and will forward that to my SS person. Luckily I have not spent any of the money, and have kept all my records about it. My SS person says that GPO applies to government and private sector when SS was not paid and retirement funds were paid. As for the GPO, would you say that it applies to our situation if neither my husband or I has any government pension?
GPO should definitely not impact your situation. I suspect it is WEP in play here, rather than GPO. GPO is specifically oriented to government jobs, whereas WEP could be due to other jobs that did not pay SS tax.
If I withdraw my application completely, then refile a restricted application for my husband’s benefits, would this eliminate my WEP problems? My husband did the file and suspend before the April 30th deadline.
Yes, it would eliminate the WEP impact, but it would trigger the GPO impact which would be even worse than WEP. GPO reduces your spousal benefit by 2/3 of the amount of the government pension being received, where WEP is at maximum 50% of the pension amount or 50% of your SS benefit. GPO can wipe out your spousal benefit altogether.
Check this out:
If you work for an entity that does not participate in social security, and you put money into a 457 or 401k where there is NO EMPLOYER matching – that is, it is 100% YOUR MONEY, it does not matter!
The SS Administration will reduce your social security ANYWAY!
How crazy is that!!!!????
Seems crazy! Have you done all the appeals possible?
I will be receiving pension benefits that are subject to the WEP. My wife will receive Social security benefits. We are trying to determine if it is worth having 50% of my pension paid to my wife if I die first and I take a smaller amount at retirement. Will her SS be compromised with the 50% WEP retirement if I die first?
No – WEP only impacts the person who earned the pension. So only your benefits will be WEP-impacted, your wife’s benefit will not.
Jim
I am receiving SS Benefits at age 65. I do realized that my SSBenefits will be subject to WEP when I receive foreign government pension. I have differ my foreign government pension untill age 70. When I claimed foreign gov pension will my SS Benefits reduced significantly higher than it would have been if I would have claimed foreign gov pension at age 65 i.e. same time when I claimed SS Benefits.
How do I calculate penalty for deffering foreign gov pension?
Generally the WEP impact will be the lesser of $428 (for 2016) or 50% of pension you are receiving based on work that is not covered by Social Security tax. So your WEP impact will likely be the same no matter when you take the pension, as long as the pension is more than $856 per month.
Thanks for your quick reply.
I turned 62 in 2012 and claimed SSB in 2015. As per SS web WEP calculated based upon PIA when one turned to 62. As per your comment if benefits does not have significant influence then it is worth having differ foreign pension.
Is my interpretation correct?
Once again thank for your response.
Whether it is “worth” deferring the pension is up to you. In the interim, your SS benefit will not be reduced until you start the pension.
Jim,
I will be subject to WEP. My pension will be $506/mth at age 62 and my SS benefit estimate will be $1023/mth at 67. I worked for 24 yrs in jobs not impacted by WEP but less than 20 yrs with “substantial earnings” so my SS will be reduced by the max of 1/2 pension or $253/mth to $770/mth. My husbands SS at 67 will be $2806/mth. If I take the 50% spouse benefit my SS benefit would be reduced by 2/3 my pension to $1150/mth. Taking the GOP is the better option. Do I have this correct??
Yes, that sounds correct to me.
jb
I am subject to WEP. I am currently working and am over 21 years with substantial earnings thereby reducing affect of WEP. If I continue to work past age 66 (my FRA) will those years of substantial income earned after my FRA continue to reduce the effect of the WEP on my benefit? Thanks.
Yes, it doesn’t matter when you earn the “year of substantial earnings” – although, if you start taking benefits and continue to earn substantial years, there will be a lag for the earnings to take effect each year. Your WEP impact should recalculate every calendar year.
jb
Hi Jim. I entered government service in 1974 as a CSRS employee, left in 1988, took my money out, and did NOT repay it. I returned to government service in 1990 as a CSRS-Offset employee (where I remained until I retired in 2012). My ex-wife (whom was married to for more than 20 years, died the same year. When she died, she was collecting Social Security Disability benefits. As I understand it, I am eligible to collect survivor benefits when I turn 60 later this year, provided that I have not re-married. A couple of questions … will the fact that I am drawing a government pension have any impact on the survivor benefits that I receive from Social Security? What are my options when I turn 62, and am eligible for my own Social Security benefit? I may have a few follow-up questions, but this is a good start. I would certainly appreciate any information that you can provide. Thanking you in advance. John
John –
If you’re drawing a government pension based on work that was not covered by SS, then any survivor benefit that you might be eligible for will be reduced by 2/3 of the amount of the government pension you’re receiving.
At 62 if you have enough credits (40 quarters) in the SS system you may be eligible for a retirement benefit based on your own record. If the government work was not covered by SS, the Windfall Elimination Provision will apply, reducing your benefit by up to $413 (for 2015).
jb
Jim, Here is my situation. I worked for more than 30 years. I applied for SS at age 66 and received $2,355.20. My wife worked for 30 years at local elementary school (PERA) and collected pension when she retired at 64. She also applied for SS at 66 (since she had 40 qtrs of working undering SS). She collected $5,000 PERA and collects only around $100 SS (based upon just her SS). What could she collected if she applied for spousal SS under my SS?
Thanks.
MS
Milton –
If the $5,000 from PERA is a monthly figure, your wife would not collect anything from a spousal benefit due to the Government Pension Offset. This GPO reduces any spousal or survivor benefit by 2/3 of the amount of pension being received, and can completely eliminate the spousal or survivor benefit.
jb
I have not reached retirement yet but will collect social security based on my working when I reached regular retirement. My husband was a government employee who died while still working at 58. I am entitled to part of his pension as surviving spouse. Will my SS benefits based on my earnings be subject to WEP if I have less than 30 yrs of substantial earnings?
Carol –
A pension that is based on someone else’s earnings does not trigger WEP or GPO impact to your Social Security benefit. So the survivor pension that you will receive based on his government job does not cause WEP to affect your Social Security benefit.
Hope this helps –
jb
Thank you.
I am glad I saw your reply to Carol.. I have been worrying about this for a long time.I am so happy about this.Will my security benefit be affected while he is still alive? Toni
I don’t know your circumstances, so I can’t say for sure. If you are in the identical situation as Carol, then no your benefits would not be impacted by a pension based on someone else’s earnings record.
Here’s a scenario…I am subject to WEP. My pension will be $1200 at age 65 and my ssi benefit will be $1200 at 65…so my ssi will be reduced to about $800. WHAT IF…I DON’T take my ssi and I apply for 1/2 of my WIFE’S ssi…her ssi will be $2400 and my wife is NOT subject to WEP. So I can take 1/2 of that ($1200) and be back to square 1…earning $1200 ssi..The question is…will I also be penalized by WEP if I take 1/2 of her earnings???
Most likely you’ll be impacted by GPO (Government Pension Offset) when you take a spousal benefit. This is more impactful, resulting in a reduction equal to 2/3 of the amount of your governmental pension. In your case that would be a reduction of $800, for a resulting spousal benefit of $400.
jb
What about for a CSRS offset employee whose social security benefits would not be subject to GPO because they have 5 years or more in CSRS offset? Can the CSRS offset employee take social security benefits on the spouse’s social security benefits without being subject to WEP (where spouse is not subject to WEP)?
WEP does not apply to spousal benefits if the individual receiving the spousal benefit is the one with the potential WEP pension. If (from your example) your wife’s benefit was impacted by WEP, then this would impact a spousal benefit that you might receive based on her record. But if she’s not subject to WEP, then your spousal benefit (from her) would also not be subject to WEP. GPO could impact the spousal benefit, but you’re indicating that your status as a CSRS offset employee would eliminate that.
What if the reverse were the case. Sandy has a pension subject to WEP and her husband has social. If Danny dies would his survivors benefit through social security be subject to WEP since his wife has the pension?
David –
In the scenario you presented, WEP would not impact the Survivor Benefit that Sandy has coming to her, but GPO would.
Hi Jim,
What are the actual mechanics of how the WEP is calculated? First of all, how does SSA know that the individual is receiving a pension where SS taxes were not paid?
From your experience, is the WEP calculator on the SSA website pretty accurate in helping a person calculate what their reduced PIA will be?
Finally, I assume that the same 8% increase from FRA to age 70 still applies to the reduced PIA?
Thanks,
Johnny Roland
Hello Johnny.
The mechanics of the WEP calculation can be found in this article: https://financialducksinarow.com/6516/what-is-wep/
When you receive a pension (or any compensation) the IRS receives a copy of the 1099-R and they communicate this information to SSA. From this, SSA may determine that you’re receiving a pension from a job where SS taxes were not paid, and therefore the WEP reduction will apply.
Yes, the WEP calculator on the SSA website does a good job of helping you calculate the reduced PIA.
You’re correct, that the 8% Delayed Retirement Credit is based upon the reduced PIA after WEP.
Hope this helps –
jb
Hi Jim,
To continue that point, what are ramifications on spousal social security benefits of the “WEP-impacted” spouse who takes their pension at a job -where SS taxes were not paid – as a lump and rolls it into a personal IRA?
Thx!
AG
The pension does not have to be in the form of an annuity payment, if taken as a lump sum then SSA will estimate the impact for the purpose of WEP applicability as if it were paid out over the lifetime of the recipient.
Delayed retirement credits are not relevant to the discussion because the WEP applies to benefits that have already started.
WEP applies to benefits that have started, even if they started at age 70. If the benefits started at age 70 then Delayed Retirement Credits would be relevant.
You confuse your point by talking about DRCs in this context. The WEP reduces the PIA, whether it earned DRCs beforehand or not.
The original commenter asked the question about DRCs applying to the reduced PIA. So I explained that they do.